Paying for an Internship

[chinaski]

Quote: Originally Posted by g.walker

Ah, what would happen if you dont end up getting an internship place? are you basically prevented from progressing through your career until you do...?

Yes. Similarly, an internship isn't worth squat unless you get an accredited training position and are able to progress through that.

Quote:

Also, from what I know Australia already has a skill-shortage across the medical field; it would seem that closing down med schools would solve one problem only to exacerbate a bigger one

It actually wouldn't - you're making the same error of logic that the government has made. If projections are correct, the schools are currently producing more graduates than we can train - ergo, a limitless supply of graduates won't help us any more than a manageable supply will. If we close them or cap them to the point that we're producing increased numbers in concentrations we can practically cope with, we can increase consultant numbers gradually AND provide gainful employment to all.

What we needed was increased numbers of graduates at a manageable trickle, not a flood. Like a flood, there's going to be a lot of waste along the way, not the instant fix that the Government assumed.

[Jono]

It'd also be against the fair work act to have an unpaid internship in any case. For good reason!

[chinaski]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jono

It'd also be against the fair work act to have an unpaid internship in any case. For good reason!

Health departments tend not to worry about silly things like industrial law and employment agreements.

We're most likely going to see a lot of people in paid employment, waiting in unaccredited positions before they get on training programs. Fun times ahead.

[Austingal]

Quote: Originally Posted by chinaski

Yes. Similarly, an internship isn't worth squat unless you get an accredited training position and are able to progress through that.

Surely it is better to have full unrestricted registration in Australia (gained through an accredited internship even if you did have to pay for it) than not being able to practice at all? And yes, creating a bottle neck for accredited training positions - but again there is a shortage in rural australia for HMOs in general.

[chinaski]

Quote: Originally Posted by Austingal

Surely it is better to have full unrestricted registration in Australia (gained through an accredited internship even if you did have to pay for it) than not being able to practice at all?

It would still be unethical to have to pay for it - and, as pointed out earlier, paying a fee won't necessarily translate into a greater ability to supervise interns. Arguably, by making people pay for an internship, you're just delaying the problem by a single year. It's not a fix for anything if there's a bigger problem down the river waiting for newly minted interns. What would we do next - make people pay for their registrar years too? Slippery slope there...

Quote:

And yes, creating a bottle neck for accredited training positions - but again there is a shortage in rural australia for HMOs in general.

Uh, so what? What has the rural doctor shortage got to do with a bottleneck in registrar training?

[Austingal]

Quote: Originally Posted by chinaski

Uh, so what? What has the rural doctor shortage got to do with a bottleneck in registrar training?

Only that the forseen bottleneck will mean that there will be an increase in unaccredited HMOs looking for jobs. This will mean that more HMOs might have to look at taking rural positions for a period of time while waiting for an accredited position. There has been some research to suggest that students & residents spending time in rural comminities are more likely to consider long term careers there. Just a thought. Short term and hopeful long term benefits for rural communities.

[chinaski]

Quote: Originally Posted by Austingal

Only that the forseen bottleneck will mean that there will be an increase in unaccredited HMOs looking for jobs. This will mean that more HMOs might have to look at taking rural positions for a period of time while waiting for an accredited position.

Austingal, we don't have a shortage of junior doctors in rural areas. We have a shortage of fully qualified doctors. It's not advisable to send JMOs out into the wilderness wherein there's even less supervision for them than there would be in the city. Furthermore, we shouldn't be considering under-qualified, under-experienced JMOs as a safe or acceptable replacement for senior clinicians - JMOs are very much on their training wheels - rural areas need and deserve more than that. If you can find a way of getting senior clinicians out into the country, then you start thinking about sending out the JMOs to learn safely under their wings. What we mustn't do is work the equation backwards, and send the JMOs out with little to no support at all. Do that, and you run the risk of damaging these JMOs beyond repair, and you can be assured very few of them would ever stay in rural practice of their own volition.

[Havox]

So are the '14 Graduates likely to get internship spots? Like the non CSP folks?

[chinaski]

Quote: Originally Posted by Havox

So are the '14 Graduates likely to get internship spots? Like the non CSP folks?

I suspect they will (the non FFP and non international students, at least - those two groups have every reason to feel nervous, IMO), though I don't hold much optimism as to the quality of their internships. We're already seeing some dubious terms popping up for interns (even in these early days) as a way of compensating for extra numbers in the system. Nonetheless, it's heaps easier to give everyone an internship than it is to find everyone a training program - so for the sake of good publicity, I don't believe any Government would like new grads from med school going to the dole queues. I'm not as optimistic about the ease at which JMOs will filter onto training programs, however. I also think it will be much harder to stay on a program once you're on, as well.

[Havox]

So is this going to be for everyone or just full fee guys and the internationals?